It all began in 1978 when Raffaello Causa, the head of the artistic heritage office and the gallery owner Lucio Amelio organised a retrospective exhibition devoted to the work of Alberto Burri, a living artist. It was the very first time that contemporary art had made such a strong impression in the Museum of Capodimonte. To mark the occasion Burri, a gruff artist from Città di Castello, had prepared a surprise. Visitors to the museum would begin by seeing Masaccio’s Crucifixion, then continued into the room devoted to the works by Titian from the Farnese collection, before moving on to the room with Brueghel’s Parable of the blind leading the blind. Quite suddenly – between the Flagellation by Caravaggio and the baroque triumphs of seventeenth century Neapolitan painting – they were confronted by a majolica work of monumental proportions (five by fifteen metres) entitled Grande Cretto Nero (Large black crack). It was a salutary shock for people who regarded museums as an open, living space but it was a traumatic experience for those who sought to defend it as an inviolable shrine dedicated to the arts. Burri’s dramatic gesture marked the start of an original and intense dialogue between past and present which, over time, has become one of the distinctive features of the Museum of Capodimonte. After Burri, it was the turn of Andy Warhol who, in July 1985, displayed his series of Vesuvius paintings, done specially for Naples, in the Camuccini Room. In December of the same year Joseph Beuys chose Capodimonte as the place to formalise his artistic legacy with a work entitled Palazzo Regale (Regal palace). A month after the opening of the exhibition on 23 January 1986, Beuys died in Düsseldorf. Burri, Warhol and Beuys therefore launched the start of a wonderful period that brought the leading Italian and international figures of contemporary art to Capodimonte (Paolini, Fabro, Alfano, Buren, LeWitt, Kosuth, Pistoletto, Kounellis, Polke, Mattiacci, Merz, Cucchi, Kiefer, Schifano, Gilbert & George, Spalletti, Tatafiore, Paladino, Louise Bourgeois, De Dominicis, etc.). In the room dedicated to Raffaello Causa, Luca Pignatelli has now brought his latest works and is about to add a new chapter to the great conversation about art.
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even on Attic kraters. Art has a timeless content even though it may seem to be contextualised in a specific chronological dimension; the body and soul to which Baudelaire referred. The focus on the work of my predecessors is the aspect I find most fascinating and gives me the energy and sense of pur- pose in my artistic research: I like to search for utopia in the past, not necessarily in the future.
CONTEMPORARY ART/WORLD THEREFORE CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT MEMORY?
Modernity is based on the rejection of tradition in favour of experimentation without any interest in history. Languages have been swept away and reset to create a new order. This phase only became important when the relationship with the use of pre-existent work produced an idea. Nowadays I be- lieve that the work of many artists consists of going through and experimenting with “materials” already used by others, almost adopting the role of post-producers of what has al- ready been created during the history of art.
THE LANGUAGE OF ART IS A CONTINUOUS PROCESS THAT LEAVES NO ROOM FOR AMNESIA OR SUDDEN LEAPS, LET ALONE SHORT CUTS. IS THIS THE APPROACH THAT UNDERPINS YOUR OWN WORK?
The use of the images that I appropriate for my work is a serene and thoughtful way of finding my bearings with re- spect to the timescale of nature and memory which allows us to contain it. There is a continuous pre-existence behind my work and therefore a constant attempt to convey these distances which are so great that they become as huge, say, as a dead star. The use of a theme that I regard as iconic, such as a figure from the fourth century BC, is not intended to be a way of approaching a style to create further beauty but a desire to use this image to provoke a contamination of time.
YOUR OWN MEMORY ALSO FEEDS OFF SEEMINGLY RANDOM SIGNS AND MATERIALS.
Observing figures marked by signs and fragments that are of- ten abstract, material or geometrical enables me to reflect on the work that has been carried out on matter itself, especially since the mid-twentieth century. For example, I often just stand and con- template the cracks and breaks in a road surface: my approach is to observe reality with a sense of awe. A sense of wonder is an alter- native to daily life; it lies in the simplicity of forms when I realise that something could be created. This often just happens by chance. We need to learn how to measure chaos because it also has its own mathematical laws.
YOUR MOST RECENT WORKS HAVE ACHIEVED AN EXTREMELY HIGH LEVEL OF AUSTERITY IN TERMS OF THEIR FORM AND CONTENTS: TO WHAT EXTENT HAS YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE “MUSEUM” PLAYED A DECISIVE ROLE?
I never think of producing works in an abstract sense. I al- ways try to imagine the finished work. It is a mental process
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rather than a pictorial one. My rapport with museums is akin to that of Cézanne when he stated “I paint for museums” . A museum is like a circle, a mirror that reflects both your own work and the work of others. It is impossible to avoid taking account of the unique nature of a place, the expression of a collective value that is unrelated to the arbitrary nature of individual practice. The encounter with a museum space is like the encounter with a town square, like a monument that makes it possible to recognise the identity of a place or like a painting that gives you the desire to share an experience. In this sense I have a much clearer idea of the relationship between imagination, originality and anonymity. It is as if there were a prevailing ascetic approach aimed at observing the surroundings before making a selection. It is a sideways look at things whereby choices have to be made to references that belong to my expressive world. In my latest works, the search for a relationship with time – a seemingly easy task but actually very complex - is designed to create a timeless sense of displacement to stimulate reflection on certain forms I re- gard as typologies which acquire force by being redisplayed with new interpretations.
THIS IS YOUR SECOND EXPERIENCE IN NAPLES. THE FIRST WAS IN 2007 AT THE ARCHAEOLOGICAL MUSEUM WHERE YOU WERE FACED WITH THE CLASSICAL WORLD, AND IN PARTICULAR SCULPTURE. AT CAPODIMONTE, A TEMPLE TO PAINTING, YOU SUSTAIN THE DIALOGUE BETWEEN TITIAN AND CARAVAGGIO WITH WORKS IN WHICH THE BRUSHSTROKES AND THE PAINT PREVAIL OVER ICONOGRAPHIC MEMORY.
There is an extremely strong critical stance that is creat- ed between one painting and another, but also between one artist and another. For example, Titian completed the portrait of Pope Paul III in Rome where it was seen by Michelangelo who praised the use of colour but criticised the draughtsmanship. The academy of art represented a key theme of the Renaissance while nowadays I am dismayed when I hear people referring to the discipline as being disparate. In my opinion, this is important, even from an existential perspective; subverting rules that come before your own will is important because mankind is once again considered to be at the centre of the work with respect to the academy which can be the outer limit or boundary of an artistic experience. Burri’s Cretto, an absolute masterpiece, cannot be compared in technical and design terms with one of Michelangelo or Raphael’s cartoons, both on display in the Museum of Capodimonte, even if the difference is not as great as it might appear. The cartoons already contain traces of what, during the twentieth century, was to devas- tate the experience of the artist with respect to the precepts of painting. Burri expresses this very powerfully in gran- diose fashion, even though he is using the same techniques as a builder. His work is conceptual, reflecting great skill in designing and firing a majolica at high temperature. Ad- vancing, changing, subverting and reformulating questions that appear to have reached a deadlock is the mechanism that I find most surprising and leads to results that often exceed my expectations.
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CAN YOU GIVE YOUR OWN DEFINITION OF THE WORD “ACADEMY”, A TERM THAT IS REJECTED BY THE JARGON OF CONTEMPORARY ART?
I interpret this term by linking it to autobiographical con- notations: I have always felt the need to rebel against at- tempts to adjust to a pre-established code or system. This aspect is hidden in my nature; similarly it is also concealed in my works which appear to belong to a classical canon. In reality I am astonished when I discover the golden ratio in certain materials I intend to use for a work or when I sense the chance of inscribing a statue of Hermes within it. This happens because, in my opinion, the models used today are mirror-images of the ones used two thousand years ago. In contemporary art, the concept of continuity disappears in the face of works such as The Fountain by Duchamp. His idea goes completely beyond academic references but continues to be discussed every day a hundred years later. There are many ways of creating art; everyone chooses their own path, the one that conforms most closely to the aims they have set themselves. The generation of artists that attended the acad- emy in the early twentieth century really learnt how to draw and how to make a bas relief. These requisites are no longer indispensible. Mies van der Rohe was a poor draughtsman but he produced extraordinary, essential drawings, the pure signs of contemporary thought. Beginning with the historic avant-garde, the radical change in direction led to the de- struction of rules in favour of an art work conceived of as a quintessentially mental construct. The same idea had already been supported by Leonardo who defined painting as a “men- tal thing”; his own scientific research into unexplored nature represents a work of art: he used a pencil to dissect reality. These values endured until 1968 when the cultural revolution led to an explosion of libertarianism in all fields and all sens- es, a declaration of independence with respect to a restrictive past, full of rules to which one had to submit. Until the third year of primary school I was forced to wear a blue smock and a bow attached to my neck with a rubber band. We came out of school under the constant gaze of the head teacher who wore a double-breasted pinstripe suit.
THE IMAGES OF THE ANCIENT WORLD HAVE BEEN A DISTINCTIVE FEATURE FOR MUCH OF YOUR CAREER. IN YOUR WORKS FOR THIS EXHIBITION, THEY NOW SEEM TO HAVE BEEN STRIPPED DOWN EVEN FURTHER TO THE BARE ESSENTIALS: THE MODEL OF REFERENCE NO LONGER PLAYS A CENTRAL ROLE BUT THE MATERIAL ITSELF BECOMES THE THEME OF REPRESENTATION..
The construction of an exhibition is always a crucial moment, even more so when it is held in a large museum. I am struck by the reciprocal narrative tension that is created between one work and another within the show. It is important to see the underlying ideas and to discover in large exhibitions how works interact with each other rather than repelling each oth- er. As far as I am concerned, I believe this experience is an ex- cellent opportunity to highlight a theme that I have been try- ing to express for some time now. I am reminded of the book by Wölfflin, How one should photograph sculpture, in which this
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LUCA, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT BEING AT CAPODIMONTE?
I find it thoroughly intriguing. This exhibition is both a final destination and a turning point that will lead me to pursue other paths. My work has led me to explore the importance of seeking a common sphere of art, a place of signs and types that return cyclically to the definition of boundaries as well as the possibility of crossing borders. It is a crucial theme and one of the most meaningful aspects of my current work. When I look at Caravaggio’s Flagellation in Capodimonte, I think of Piero della Francesca’s painting in Urbino and I continue to go back in time, looking for similar portrayals,s a key issue: I wanted to transform sculpture into a painting through photography. I thought it was more appropriate for the work to appear in its own reality as the transference from one culture to another, recorded from a new perspective: my own. The painting is two dimensional, a flat field that could be a panel by Warburg, with images on the surface that repre- sent interconnections or analogies between seemingly remote worlds; an electric battery of memory capable of switching on at first sight, as in my paintings.
MB    AN APPROACH THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF YOUR WORK, BUT WHICH IS NOW MORE EVIDENT, IS TO GO BEYOND REPRESENTATION, ENHANCING THE MARK AND THE MATERIAL. THIS ASPECT IS EVEN MORE EXPLICIT IN THE EXHIBITION OF YOUR WORK IN MILAN WHICH IS BEING HELD ALMOST SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH THE ONE IN CAPODIMONTE, WHERE YOU PRESENT FOR THE FIRST TIME THE SECRET PRACTICE OF DRAWING WHICH HAS KEPT YOUR PAINTING TOGETHER HARMONIOUSLY FOR DECADES.
LP    They are forms of representation of a scientific procedure that is drawn and then disintegrates. Although they represent com- plete images when considered collectively, I am currently work- ing with fragments, pieces of a process of disintegration that expresses attachment to an area. I was born in Milan, a place situated in northern Italy, in geographical terms, but which is actually in the south of the western world, more closely linked to the Mediterranean than to the lands of the north. It is a land that, for two thousand years, has been Roman, Christian and Germanic, a place that has witnessed both considerable con- struction and destruction. This is the poetically threatened world that can be seen behind my works or when observing them, an area of construction and conflict which for me rep- resents the genius loci – the spirit of the place. In the exhibition at the Archaeological Museum in Naples in 2007, I invent- ed a room with 98 paintings consisting of vases that acted as containers of epic images, clashes and encounters. The desire to portray a whole using fragments is expressed, in this case, through the idea of a continuous series of revolving images. I called these containers Schermi (Screens), as if they were films.
MB    YOUR APPROACH EMERGES VERY CLEARLY IN POMPEI, THE MONUMENTAL WORK AROUND WHICH THE WHOLE OF THE CAPODIMONTE EXHIBITION IS ORGANISED. DOES THIS REPRESENTATION TIE YOU TO THE PLACE, THE CONCEPT OF CATASTROPHE THAT IT CONTAINS AND, AT THE SAME TIME, EXPRESSES A NEW SENSE OF YOUR APPROACH TO PAINTING?
LP    I have always painted Pompeii and New York because they represented two opposing extremes which display many sim- ilarities. In 1986 I spent several months in New York where I rediscovered the layout of a large classical city made up of cardi (streets running north-south) and decumani (streets running east-west), a city made up of exaggerations like a modern-day Babylon. Pompeii represents the subsequent stage: the survival of a civilisaton after a great tragedy. The eruption of 79 AD evokes the theme, rooted in tradition, of nature in ruins: I also imagined that the destruction could
have been caused by a bombardment, so I painted an Amer- ican B52 flying above a North African city. Like a second tragedy, the idea emerges of military imperialism that targets the temple which represents the constant disruption of war. In this site-specific work, which is primarily designed to be a tribute to the city of Naples, I was interested in stripping the context of any external references, going straight to the framework. I arranged in order several fragments (such as the decorations from the House of Marcus Lucretius Fronto) of an overall view that represents Pompeii, viewed through the break-up of a a synoptic view that explains the history of the city in a hypothetical encyclopaedia. It is as if the sheet of paper had fallen into a puddle and been ruined before being pieced back together. I tried to capture the interest displayed by the whole world in this site, or rather the negligence that is such a typical part of Italian behaviour. The word “Italia” ap- pears in the upper part of the painting: the ruined elements secretly identify the nobility of Italy.
MB    MEMORY ALSO IMPLIES FORESIGHT. WHEN WARHOL PAINTED VESUVIUS, INFLUENCED BY THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT GIORGIO SOMMER MADE DURING THE ERUPTION OF 1872, I ASKED HIM IF HE COULD IMAGINE SOMETHING SIMILAR HAPPENING IN NEW YORK: “THE ONLY THING THAT COULD POSSIBLY RESEMBLE VESUVIUS ERUPTING IS THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING IN FLAMES”, ALMOST A PROPHESY OF WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THE TWIN TOWERS ON 11 SEPTEMBER 2001... IS THE LARGE PAINTING OF POMPEI THEREFORE A WATERSHED, A STATEMENT OF SOMETHING THAT IS HAPPENING IN YOUR PAINTING?
LP    Pompei is a picture that contains no painting, in the sense that I do not use zinc white or a paintbrush, although it is obvious that a painting can be created without actual painting. In this case the picture is organised through an imbalance, a precip- itous vertical slope, a separation, a means of appropriating the place and representation using unorthodox techniques. For this work I applied materials to other materials and, at first sight, I found myself in front of a painting. The first time I came across one of these large railway tarpaulins, I immediately realised that they already contained a work: the finished part and the unfinished part, the painting and the non-painting. This Pompei calls to mind a real representation of the city. The applications employed are a skeleton, in the sense of a soul and strength of a structure; they take shape like the desire to paint using nothing. I tried to glean ideas by revealing the structures already contained in the tarpau- lin-canvas. In this sense it is essential to choose what is useful and discard all the rest.
MB    AFTER POMPEI WHAT DOES THE FUTURE HOLD?
LP    I am thinking of making pictures using a steamroller; canvases and paints will be placed on the ground, crushed by this three ton vehicle. I believe that leaving the sign of imperfection is a primitive, ancestral gesture. It is no coincidence that to the left of Pompei I intentionally kept an existing hole in the canvas which I sewed up again: it looks like a picture by Rorschach. It could be the first step in a new direction of research.